Former Protection Secretary Chuck Hagel weighs in on Trump nominee Pete Hegseth’s {qualifications} to guide the Division of Protection. : NPR

MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

What does it take to run the Division of Protection? That could be a query that’ll be on the coronary heart of Pete Hegseth’s affirmation course of early subsequent yr. Hegseth, longtime Fox Information host, is President-elect Trump’s nominee for secretary of protection. The Division he is nominated to run is without doubt one of the largest, most advanced entities within the U.S. – an establishment that, as our subsequent visitor notes, has its personal judicial code, its personal authorized system, its well being care system.

Nicely, Chuck Hagel ran that establishment. He served as secretary of protection from 2013 to 2015. Earlier than that, he served a dozen years within the U.S. Senate as a Republican senator from Nebraska. Secretary Hagel, nice to talk with you once more.

CHUCK HAGEL: Oh, thanks.

KELLY: I need to begin by letting you give us some sense of the span of issues that will cross your desk as you tried to run it – the Protection Division.

HAGEL: Nicely, the best way I clarify that job – I led it. I did not run it. I led it. And I feel that is vital as a result of you need to work with and take heed to so many alternative leaders inside the establishment – I imply, beginning with the chairman of the joint chiefs of workers after which every of the chiefs of the companies. You’ve got acquired the White Home. You’re employed with all of the establishments in authorities. It is a every day, early-in-the-morning-to-late-at-night effort. Sudden – a variety of surprising issues come throughout your desk. You are world wide. , I feel within the two years I used to be secretary, I took round 27 worldwide journeys.

KELLY: Truthful to say you aren’t describing an entry-level administration job.

HAGEL: (Laughter) No. However, , these of us who had the privilege of main the Pentagon had by no means had an expertise fairly like that, and actually no person has. However most of us who’ve led it have had some expertise main establishments in authorities and within the personal sector.

KELLY: So I do need to flip you to the present second and to President-elect Trump’s decide to guide the Pentagon. He’s a Fox Information host. He is an Military veteran, Nationwide Guard. He has by no means run an enormous group. Our Pentagon correspondent, Tom Bowman, who’s coated the Protection Division for a few years, went again over the biographies of protection secretaries and secretaries of conflict, going again to the start of the Republic. He says, and I am quoting, “without a doubt, Hegseth has the least experience.” What questions does that increase?

HAGEL: I feel that is a matter, and I feel the Senate affirmation course of will deliver that up. I imply, the affirmation course of of those large jobs is so critically vital. I feel, although, it is extra than simply expertise. I imply, it is the whole persona of who you might be and what you deliver to the job.

KELLY: So that you wrote an essay for The New York Occasions final week, and the headline was, “Why I’m Worried About Our Military.” You write…

(Studying) Political independence and ethics are the bedrock of our army. Right now, I am involved that each are in peril.

Secretary Hagel, why?

HAGEL: If the army is ever politicized in any approach – and we’re seeing some indications from this incoming administration that it might be – for instance, the soldiers group – this group that President-elect Trump has talked about – evaluating generals and admirals, making selections whether or not these individuals are certified to guide the army or not or in the event that they’ve made errors after which recommending to the president that he fireplace them – that is politicizing the army. And the issues that Mr. Hegseth’s stated in regards to the army, that does concern me in each approach as a result of, should you politicize the army, you politicize…

KELLY: Could I ask what remarks are providing you with pause?

HAGEL: Sure. For instance, ladies shouldn’t be in fight. , we handed that marker a very long time in the past – this concern of range within the army.

KELLY: Simply to place a degree on this, Trump’s nominee, he has urged he would look to take away senior officers that he sees as too woke. He has included the present chairman of the joint chiefs in that. My query to you – can he do this? I imply, only for individuals who do not observe this carefully, the chairman of the joint chiefs serves a four-year time period. The present chair, CQ Brown, is just one yr in.

HAGEL: Sure. Nicely, the president of america has the authority to fireside any federal worker. He can do this. And that is one other instance of what I am speaking about. Once you begin speaking about, nicely, firing the chairman of the joint chiefs of workers, whose file is as spectacular as any file we have seen – while you discuss firing him due to so-called woke, what do you imply by that? That is what’s so harmful right here, and that is why I am so involved. If, the truth is, this administration follows by on this stuff, then we’re in for lots of bother.

KELLY: What – while you say we might be in for lots of bother – bother like what? What does that imply?

HAGEL: Oh, officers resigning – while you begin firing individuals from the surface, you will have officers and senior enlisted resign. You’ll lose the standard of the individuals who now serve. Our adversaries will see that. Our allies will see that. They’ll take from {that a} weakening of our army, a weakening of our army management, a weakening of our dedication by our army to a objective a lot bigger than their very own self-interest – and that is america of America’s safety.

KELLY: To individuals who may have a look at the Protection Division and say, hey, possibly this establishment is due for a shake-up – it is a army that fought two lengthy, actually costly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as I needn’t inform you, the place aims weren’t all the time clearly outlined.

HAGEL: Nicely, that does not come from the army. That comes from the political management of our nation. It wasn’t the army. Our army serves the president because the chief and commander in chief of this nation, with the acquiescence and the help of the Congress and the American individuals. However the army would not make that call.

KELLY: Former Protection Secretary and former Republican Senator Chuck Hagel. Secretary, thanks.

HAGEL: Thanks very a lot.

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